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It is currently 24 May 2013, 13:42
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Burning Ham
Metal Guru
Joined: 07 Apr 2002, 20:38 Posts: 41071 Location: Big Blue Central
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Imagine that. He actually says something that makes sense! Jim Bowden wrote: On Sunday, MLB finished up the interleague portion of the schedule for 2012, and it was the end of interleague play as we know it. In 2013, the Houston Astros will move to the American League, which will give each league 15 teams and also give us interleague play all season long.
This development is positive in that it will give us six divisions with five teams apiece, but it poses its own set of problems. Chief among them is the designated hitter rule. With so many interleague games, having two sets of rules complicates matters for a game struggling to remain simple and fan friendly.
Let’s be clear: It is time for baseball to get both of its leagues synchronized with the same rule, whether that’s with or without the designated hitter rule.
Since abolishing the DH would never get approved by the MLB Players' Association, the game has no choice but to embrace the DH -- from the major leagues down through the all levels of the minor leagues.
Before baseball purists vehemently disagree with me, understand I was the general manager of two National League teams and spent over two decades in the league. However, as much as I prefer NL rules and believe the NL game is better baseball, if I were still a general manager, I would vote to use the designated hitter rule in both leagues.
During his tenure, Commissioner Bud Selig has done a terrific job in moving the game forward and it's likely that he will one day be recognized in the Hall of Fame for his historic stewardship of the game. Just rattle off some of his accomplishments: Interleague play, expansion, instant replay, new ball parks in almost every city, a drug testing program that is arguably the best in sports, a powerful Internet presence, blockbuster radio/television deals and a collective bargaining agreement that has restored parity back to baseball. Selig has never rested on his laurels, and I don’t expect him to now. He’s not done.
Having two sets of rules unfairly puts teams at a real disadvantage depending if their game is at home or on the road. To alleviate this, baseball must synchronize both leagues with one rule -- either using the DH or abolishing it. And though eliminating the DH might be the baseball purists’ desire, the fact is installing in both leagues is the easier and more practical option.
Obstacles to one rule
I can’t count how many times when I was a GM for the Cincinnati Reds and Washington Nationals that we voted or were polled on the DH rule during the GM meetings. When the voting and/or polls were completed, it was always 16 to 14 or 15 to 15. After several years of the same results, I realized that the industry will never get 30 teams, general managers, managers or owners to agree on which way the sport should go.
But the debate -- the voting, the polling -- should never have been about DH or no DH. It should be about going to one rule, period. When I ask managers and players today which way they’d want to go everyone agrees that baseball should adopt one or the other. But which one?
Over the past couple of weeks, Jim Leyland, Joe Maddon and T Ron Washington all told me that they want to see one rule. While both Washington and Maddon told me that they prefer the NL rules, the fact is all three see the importance of any one rule far more critical of a decision than which rule is adopted.
Why the DH?
For several reasons abolishing the DH rule is clearly more difficult (if not impossible) than adopting it industry wide. Because of this, to me, it only makes sense to adopt the DH across both leagues.
Certainly having pitchers hit adds many more levels of strategy. I enjoy the managerial decisions that must be made every night, even if it’s simply pinch-hitting for a pitcher in a 2-2 game in the 8th inning, or a manager deciding to double-switch depending on how the lineup is situated.
But for practical purposes, the DH lessens the risk of injury to pitchers. Every year we see a pitcher injured trying to bat or run the bases. This year Texas Rangers reliever Alexi Ogando pulled a hamstring trying to run out a ground ball in their series against the San Francisco Giants. Washington told me Wednesday, the injury has forced him to insist on his pitchers go through more base running drills to prevent future injuries, even if with the limited interleague schedule.
As for players who are full-time designated hitters such as Kendrys Morales, Adam Dunn, Michael Young and David Ortiz, they too often find themselves on the bench for important interleague games at NL ball parks. Fans want to see them hit, managers want them in the lineup. It is an imbalance that frankly, disrupts the quality and integrity of the game. And the dual rules will be even more striking next year when one of those designated hitters has to sit out of a crucial September game (or games) in an NL park.
The brutal truth is the MLB Players Association will never acquiesce to giving up the designated hitter because of the considerable salaries of those players. They aren't going to take jobs away from highly-paid productive offensive players such Ortiz, Morales, Dunn and Young. For instance, it would be difficult for a team like the White Sox -- who will pay Dunn $15 million in 2013 and 2014 -- to move him from DH to the field if the position was eliminated. It won’t happen now and it won’t happen in 10 years.
The new 15-team leagues in 2013 will improve the game's scheduling and make it more of an even playing field within the divisions. However, until the rules of interleague play become the same, the integrity and fairness of the competition will be rightfully questioned.
Look, I love National League baseball significantly more than having a full-time DH, but having baseball abide by one rule is absolutely essential for the game’s continuity. In order to allow the game to evolve, it’s just time to make the DH uniform in both leagues and leave the hitting to the professionals. Let's hope Commissioner Selig, the 30 clubs and the MLBPA do the right thing for baseball and just make the DH rule a permanent fixture for all games and every level of baseball.
_________________
deathstalker wrote: I honestly cant tell if you are retarded by accident or on purpose.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 12:06 |
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Lapidate
Metal Guru
Joined: 15 Mar 2003, 15:35 Posts: 5613 Location: London, UK
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
The article is pretty much spot-on. I also prefer the NL rules in terms of strategy, but I find the DH rule much more exciting as a viewer, knowing there is that extra big bat in the lineup. We all know that when a pitcher comes up to bat it is most likely to end up in one of two scenarios, a strikeout, or a bunt to move runners over. Baseball, eventually, will have to embrace a single rule, and, as the article says, due to the large salaries which guys like Ortiz command, the MLBPA will force hands and make the single rule the DH rule.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 12:28 |
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Angry Inch
Metal Guru
Joined: 26 Nov 2006, 21:35 Posts: 26288
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Pitchers trying to hit is the lamest thing in baseball. And sorry, but the "added strategy"? Please. Ooooooh, a double switch! WOWEE!
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| 25 Jun 2012, 14:03 |
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Blasphomet
Metal Guru
Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 14:26 Posts: 12459
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
I agree... This whole 'national league strategy' thing is blown way out of proportion. You have to apply it because the rules force you to. It's not like they are strategists because they want to be. They are forced to be. It's just baseball elitism because it's the 'senior circuit', which is fine, but don't give me this game about it being a better game. I have no issue with the pitcher batting really, but they consistency in both leagues. The AL, while having a better record throughout interleague play, still has a disadvantage in both league's ball parks. Interleague play is fucking stupid. I didn't read the whole article there, but I was confused by the beginning. How does Houston moving to the AL spell the end of interleague play? The Jays are still going to play national league teams along with everyone else are they not? Or are they actually getting rid of IL play? If they are this is the first i heard of it. 
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| 25 Jun 2012, 14:20 |
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Big Metal Dude
Metal Guru
Joined: 20 Feb 2002, 13:38 Posts: 31535 Location: S.O.N.W.D.
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Man, I hadn't checked my fantasy roster in a bit (just too busy/hasn't been on my mind)... I've got like four or five guys on the DL. Looks like a couple are due back soon, but YIKES!
_________________ -formerly known as Demonic Scientist-
Darth Ballz wrote: I think I might be gay
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| 25 Jun 2012, 14:35 |
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Burning Ham
Metal Guru
Joined: 07 Apr 2002, 20:38 Posts: 41071 Location: Big Blue Central
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Blasphomet wrote: I didn't read the whole article there, but I was confused by the beginning. How does Houston moving to the AL spell the end of interleague play? The Jays are still going to play national league teams along with everyone else are they not? Or are they actually getting rid of IL play? If they are this is the first i heard of it. I presume he means with how most of it comes in one big block in June. It'll be sprinkled throughout the season going forward. I'm guessing it is why the schedules for next year hasn't been released yet.
_________________
deathstalker wrote: I honestly cant tell if you are retarded by accident or on purpose.
Last edited by Burning Ham on 25 Jun 2012, 15:23, edited 1 time in total.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 14:39 |
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Lapidate
Metal Guru
Joined: 15 Mar 2003, 15:35 Posts: 5613 Location: London, UK
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Burning Ham wrote: Blasphomet wrote: I didn't read the whole article there, but I was confused by the beginning. How does Houston moving to the AL spell the end of interleague play? The Jays are still going to play national league teams along with everyone else are they not? Or are they actually getting rid of IL play? If they are this is the first i heard of it. I presume he means with how most of it comes in one big block in June. It'll be sprinkled throughout the season going forward. I'm guessing it is why the schedules for next year hasn't be released yet. Yeah, I think they are looking at increasing the amount of 'inter-league' games and just not calling it 'inter-league' anymore.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 15:23 |
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Reanimated
Metal Guru
Joined: 23 May 2003, 20:00 Posts: 10686 Location: Oshawa
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Burning Ham wrote: Blasphomet wrote: I didn't read the whole article there, but I was confused by the beginning. How does Houston moving to the AL spell the end of interleague play? The Jays are still going to play national league teams along with everyone else are they not? Or are they actually getting rid of IL play? If they are this is the first i heard of it. I presume he means with how most of it comes in one big block in June. It'll be sprinkled throughout the season going forward. I'm guessing it is why the schedules for next year hasn't been released yet. Good... I'm hoping the Dodgers come to Toronto sometime while Mattingly is still the Skip, just so I can keep yelling at him to trim those sideburns.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 15:29 |
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Blasphomet
Metal Guru
Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 14:26 Posts: 12459
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Lapidate wrote: Burning Ham wrote: Blasphomet wrote: I didn't read the whole article there, but I was confused by the beginning. How does Houston moving to the AL spell the end of interleague play? The Jays are still going to play national league teams along with everyone else are they not? Or are they actually getting rid of IL play? If they are this is the first i heard of it. I presume he means with how most of it comes in one big block in June. It'll be sprinkled throughout the season going forward. I'm guessing it is why the schedules for next year hasn't be released yet. Yeah, I think they are looking at increasing the amount of 'inter-league' games and just not calling it 'inter-league' anymore. Then they will have to adopt the DH, which from what i did read, is what that article is about. The AL will play every NL time for one series i assume. This may help with providing a more balanced schedule.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 15:58 |
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hpatton
Headbanger
Joined: 04 Nov 2004, 01:10 Posts: 656 Location: The city that rhymes with fun
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
I was with him until this line: "During his tenure, Commissioner Bud Selig has done a terrific job in moving the game forward and it's likely that he will one day be recognized in the Hall of Fame for his historic stewardship of the game."
I had to quit reading and go vomit after that.
_________________ Sweet Zombie Jesus!
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| 25 Jun 2012, 19:09 |
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Reanimated
Metal Guru
Joined: 23 May 2003, 20:00 Posts: 10686 Location: Oshawa
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Henderson Alvarez hurt himself tonight... That makes 4 out of 5 starting pitchers put on the DL for the Jays.  Thank fuck the bats have dynamite in them right now. Pitching has been shit ever since Morrow got hurt.
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| 25 Jun 2012, 23:22 |
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Jotun
Metal Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2003, 21:43 Posts: 15999 Location: where the baptized drown
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
7 pitchers out right now and still, if the Jays were in the Central they'd be leading that division ah well, can't expect too much from them till we get some guys back hey how about this for an interesting stat 2012 wins for: Roy Halladay - 4 ($20,000,000 per year) Cliff Lee - 0 ($21,500,000 per year) 
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| 26 Jun 2012, 17:26 |
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Jotun
Metal Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2003, 21:43 Posts: 15999 Location: where the baptized drown
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
to put it into perspective: Henderson Alvarez makes $482,000 this year, he has 4 wins Cliff Lee & Roy Halladay make a combined $41,500,000 this year and have 4 wins between them. 
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| 26 Jun 2012, 17:32 |
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Reanimated
Metal Guru
Joined: 23 May 2003, 20:00 Posts: 10686 Location: Oshawa
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Jotun wrote: to put it into perspective: Henderson Alvarez makes $482,000 this year, he has 4 wins Cliff Lee & Roy Halladay make a combined $41,500,000 this year and have 4 wins between them.  Wins mean nothing.... If a pitcher gets run support than good for him. Ricky Romero is something like 8-1 this year... it's only because he's received major run support. He's been a shitty pitcher otherwise.
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| 26 Jun 2012, 19:05 |
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Jotun
Metal Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2003, 21:43 Posts: 15999 Location: where the baptized drown
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
well it's not a perfect measurement for a pitchers talent, wins mean SOMETHING, give me a break 
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| 26 Jun 2012, 19:26 |
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Burning Ham
Metal Guru
Joined: 07 Apr 2002, 20:38 Posts: 41071 Location: Big Blue Central
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Wins say more about the team than it does the pitchers.
_________________
deathstalker wrote: I honestly cant tell if you are retarded by accident or on purpose.
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| 26 Jun 2012, 21:12 |
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Blasphomet
Metal Guru
Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 14:26 Posts: 12459
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Wins mean basically nothing when it comes to pitching. End of story. Pitchers don't get paid depending on wins, they get paid in accordance with ERA and WHIP. There have been many a great pitching performances that ended in 1-0 losses, and even more wins after terrible starts.
Wins mean basically nothing... they just look nice to the layman.
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| 26 Jun 2012, 21:19 |
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Jotun
Metal Guru
Joined: 06 Jan 2003, 21:43 Posts: 15999 Location: where the baptized drown
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
yeah, you guys are right. i'm sure the Phillies are very satisfied with those 2 this year
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| 26 Jun 2012, 21:50 |
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Burning Ham
Metal Guru
Joined: 07 Apr 2002, 20:38 Posts: 41071 Location: Big Blue Central
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
I don't know if you are being sarcastic or you finally looked up some stats. And it's not just the fact that Halladay has missed a good chunk; Ryan Howard hasn't played at all, either.
_________________
deathstalker wrote: I honestly cant tell if you are retarded by accident or on purpose.
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| 26 Jun 2012, 23:20 |
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Blasphomet
Metal Guru
Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 14:26 Posts: 12459
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
If any team was stupid enough to look at a pitchers wins before ERA or WHIP and make their decision on whether to sign them based on that... well, it doesn't happen so it's a moot point.
Wins mean next to nothing when it comes to the effectiveness of a pitcher. Romero is a great example this year. He's struggled quite a bit, walked a ton of people, but has had a ton of run support to boost his win/loss record.
The top two pitchers in ERA in the NL are the opposite side of the spectrum. Brandon Beachy has a 2.00 ERA but is 5-5. And that's on Atlanta, who've been a pretty solid team this year. If you have a good ERA and WHIP, and are on a decent team, the wins usually come regardless, it's a given, so again wins are sort of a moot point/stat.
And saying 'sort of' is being generous. IMO, wins mean absolutely nothing when it comes to a pitchers quality. When I am looking at some stats before a game to see who jays are facing, wins never come into the equation. No sport is based more on stats than baseball is... but wins mean nothing.
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| 27 Jun 2012, 09:55 |
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Reanimated
Metal Guru
Joined: 23 May 2003, 20:00 Posts: 10686 Location: Oshawa
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Hey, look at that. Romero's pitching another shitty game. He's walked 75% of the people in the stands today too. 
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| 27 Jun 2012, 13:55 |
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Blasphomet
Metal Guru
Joined: 24 Feb 2011, 14:26 Posts: 12459
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
BUT HE'S GOT 8 WINS!!!!!!!!! 
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| 27 Jun 2012, 14:00 |
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Reanimated
Metal Guru
Joined: 23 May 2003, 20:00 Posts: 10686 Location: Oshawa
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Bautista and Encarnacion extend their tag team home run lead today. Bautista pounded his so hard it went out of the stadium and dented the roof of somebody's SUV in the parking lot.  Edit: What's awesome is that those 2 combined have more home runs right now than everybody put together on the Dodgers. Shocking when you look at the Dodger's record right now.
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| 27 Jun 2012, 14:35 |
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Lapidate
Metal Guru
Joined: 15 Mar 2003, 15:35 Posts: 5613 Location: London, UK
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Sabathia and Pettite placed on the DL today by the Yankees. Nice to see them taking their share of the Jays' woes.
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| 27 Jun 2012, 16:11 |
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Angry Inch
Metal Guru
Joined: 26 Nov 2006, 21:35 Posts: 26288
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 Re: 2012 Baseball Thread
Lapidate wrote: Sabathia and Pettite placed on the DL today by the Yankees. Nice to see them taking their share of the Jays' woes. And Boston's. Boston has had more games lost to injury than anyone in the league. Currently on the DL for Boston (this is just off the top of my head): Josh Becket Clay Buchholz John Lackey (addition by subtraction) Rich Hill Jacoby Ellsbury Carl Crawford Scott Podsednik Mike Sweeney Andrew Bailey Guys that have missed time on the DL (again, top of my head): Kevin Youkilis (traded) Ryan Kalish Cody Ross Aaron Cook Daisuke Matsuzaka So basically, 2/3 of their starting outfield is out and their 3rd, 4th and 5th outfielders either are or have spent time on the DL. Their starting 2B missed time due to injury (though never on the DL). Their starting 3B missed a lot of time on the DL before being traded. Their #1 and #3 starters are currently out. Their closer is out. Their 6th starter made one start and went out. Their erstwhile lefty specialist is out. Their 7th starter just came back. Frankly it's amazing they're even competing at all.
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| 27 Jun 2012, 16:45 |
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