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 Here, we discuss tubes... 
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Post Here, we discuss tubes...
Been experimenting with these in a Marshall TSL 100 for years...usually go with groovetubes 12ax7 but trying to get a more crisp overdrive tone lately. Heard mixing tubes actually does more damage to the amp and JJ tubes are kinda mediocre imo. Any thoughts, experience, recommendations?

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07 Apr 2014, 11:49
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
"Mixing tubes does damage to the amp"

What in the hell are you talking about? When you replace the power tubes you should replace them all at once with a matched quad or pair and bias them correctly (if your amp needs biasing). You will not damage your amplifier by not following this, but your performance will be suboptimal.

Preamp tubes you can mix and match as much as you want.

Groove Tubes is a rebrander, they dont actually manufacture anything. They buy shipping containers of tubes from Russia and China and "Stringently test" the tubes. Those who "meet their standards" get slapped with their logo and that is that. 50% markup please.

There are only 4 operational factories of vacuum tubes producing any kind of quantity.

- The Svetlana factory in Russia, which is owned by New Sensor/ElectroHarmonix. They also manufacture under different brands like Tung-Sol and Mullard that they bought the rights to. As far as I understand these are just labels; they did not purchase any tooling that went with the old reputable brands.

-Shuguang (sp?) in China. I think these are made on old Philips machines that the chinks bought for scrap in the 90s. These are shit.

- JJ Electronic in Slovakia. These are built on the original TESLA machines that were bought by a former employee when the original TESLA electronics cartel was broken up in the 90s.

-Some other factory in russia. Can't remember which brands they make

When it comes to NEW manufactured tubes, the only ones I bother with are JJ. The only real option is between JJ and the Svetlana variations, and I have no patience to keep track of how the Svetlanas are being marketed or branded. All JJ tubes in North America get sold through http://www.eurotubes.com, and they will guarantee everything if bought from them. They are also the cheapest new production tubes because they don't have the stupid markups other brands like to tack on.

If you want to talk about New Old Stock or Vintage tubes, thats something else. Good bargains are Telefunken, especially since they are impossible to counterfiet. They have the diamond logo molded into the glass rather than just painted on.

EDIT: Looking at the TSL schematic, much of the distortion appears to be created by FETs (transistors) acting as clippers. Basically a distortion pedal circuit in your preamp. I don't think cork sniffing your tubes will make that much of a difference.


13 Apr 2014, 15:57
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
"cork sniffing," i like that.

good to know. :thumb:

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13 Apr 2014, 18:44
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
So,

I am looking to replace the tubes on my tiny terror... I don't know if it needs to be biased or not (will look that up).

I don't know if they need replacing, I bought it used a few years ago, and have put in some good miles on it... but I figured it is time to jump in to the lake:

so Tiny terror: ✓Tubes: Preamp - 2 x 12AX7, Output 2 x EL84

I mainly play metal on it although it isn't really isn't ideal for it, I should probably just buy that Blackstar HT Metal 5H 5-Watt Tube Head from sweetwater: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HTMetal5H/

I was thinking with the different tubes I might be able to get a better metal sound out of the tiny terror, ( by using say JJ Electronic ECC83S - 12AX7 ). BUT maybe I am doing an apples vs oranges thing here and trying to make the tiny terror do something it is never going to do well?

Maybe I should focus on improving what the tiny terror already does fairly well and go for a better bluesy sound with say: JJ Electronic ECC803 S Gold Pin - 12AX7 ?

This is all new to me and have been thinking about making a post about tubes for some time.

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18 Apr 2014, 22:10
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
Fraeg wrote:
So,

I am looking to replace the tubes on my tiny terror... I don't know if it needs to be biased or not (will look that up).

I don't know if they need replacing, I bought it used a few years ago, and have put in some good miles on it... but I figured it is time to jump in to the lake:

so Tiny terror: ✓Tubes: Preamp - 2 x 12AX7, Output 2 x EL84

I mainly play metal on it although it isn't really isn't ideal for it, I should probably just buy that Blackstar HT Metal 5H 5-Watt Tube Head from sweetwater: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HTMetal5H/

I was thinking with the different tubes I might be able to get a better metal sound out of the tiny terror, ( by using say JJ Electronic ECC83S - 12AX7 ). BUT maybe I am doing an apples vs oranges thing here and trying to make the tiny terror do something it is never going to do well?

Maybe I should focus on improving what the tiny terror already does fairly well and go for a better bluesy sound with say: JJ Electronic ECC803 S Gold Pin - 12AX7 ?

This is all new to me and have been thinking about making a post about tubes for some time.



It depends on what kind of metal sound you're looking for... I've read that sticking a Tung Sol 12AX7 in V1 of most Terror amps will help improve general tightness and clarity, and add a bit of brightness to the amp. This is what I plan on doing with my Dark Terror soon enough.

That being said, I don't think you'll ever get a super-aggressive metal sound out of the TT without a distortion pedal but you could get a very serviceable stoner/doom sound out of it.

If you're looking for high gain in a lunchbox amp though, I'd look into the Blackstar you mentioned, or a Dark Terror or Jim Root Terror.

Check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V7oROJyQ9ws


19 Apr 2014, 12:06
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
thanks for the feedback. Yeah I bought it on ebay for a nice price (was modded with an fx loop as well), a couple months after I bought it the Dark terror came out :duh:

I have been playing it with a Japanese made Boss HM-2 with everything turned to 11 to get that old school Entombed etc. sound.

I also have a mid 90s era Sovtek Big Muff Pi so I can get some big heavy stoner stuff, and perhaps with your tube suggestion I can get that even more so.

I guess my real issue is I would like to get tones like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzQpiJjdprQ

and I am thinking that just like my kayaks: I have a creek boat, a downriver boat, and a play boat, no one boat really does it all. And with Heads I guess it is the same.

My brother has a dark terror, and has offered to let me borrow it (means shipping across country). Might take him up on that if he is truly serious about (would mail him my TT so he had something to use). hmmmm that is probably the best bet. Hell if I sweeten the deal he might even trade me as he is more into making electronica that includes guitars, where I am more into Godflesh, Anaal Nathrakh etc.

cheers.

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19 Apr 2014, 12:41
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
Did you try using it with a tubescreamer in front? (not going into a clean channel...that just gives you an overdriven sound)

Dial up the Tone pot fully, volume to taste and leave the gain at 0.

This tightens up the gain substantially, and is pretty standard fare in metal.

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20 Apr 2014, 12:21
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
Malevolent_Croatian wrote:
Did you try using it with a tubescreamer in front? (not going into a clean channel...that just gives you an overdriven sound)

Dial up the Tone pot fully, volume to taste and leave the gain at 0.

This tightens up the gain substantially, and is pretty standard fare in metal.


don't own a tubescreamer but can borrow one, thanks for the tip.

Spoke with my brother on the phone, I am going to mail him my TT and he is going to send me his DT and we will exchange for a few months. :m:

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20 Apr 2014, 15:08
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
No problem. An EQ pedal can also help you tighten it and basically dial out some hiss and excess low frequencies

Image

Another couple pedals that really help with getting that modern heavy sound is a solid, fast acting noise gate and a compressor.

I've dick-all to do today, so i'm gonna show ya the differences using Amplitube (Orange Tiny Terror model) and my Zoom G5. This is just to give you an idea, since you're using the actual legit gear and not simulations, yours will sound a lot better. I also could've tightened the EQ a bit more, there's still some fizzyness, but I'm sure you'll get the idea. Also don't mind my playing, I'm literally still waking up, and made up the dumb riffs as I was playing. As you're progressing keep in mind that I didn't change any of the amps settings, just added the respective effects.

https://soundcloud.com/van-vego/amplitube-tiny-terror-only

https://soundcloud.com/van-vego/tiny-terror-tubescreamer

https://soundcloud.com/van-vego/amplitube-tiny-terror-tubescreamer-comp-and-eq <<< This one also has noise gates engaged, forgot to mention that.

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22 Apr 2014, 11:02
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
wow, yeah that is a big difference. I really appreciate you taking the time to load those to soundcloud.

for a noise gate I have a Boss NS-2 (nothing fancy)

for an EQ and/or tubescreamer, I am sure I could spend an arm and a let for some rack mount EQ and a boutique Tubescreamer.. but can you recommend something budget friendly?

thanks again

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23 Apr 2014, 20:23
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
Fraeg wrote:
wow, yeah that is a big difference. I really appreciate you taking the time to load those to soundcloud.

for a noise gate I have a Boss NS-2 (nothing fancy)

for an EQ and/or tubescreamer, I am sure I could spend an arm and a let for some rack mount EQ and a boutique Tubescreamer.. but can you recommend something budget friendly?

thanks again



Great budget OD pedal is a Digitech Bad Monkey. You can probably find a used one for 30-35 bucks or so. As far as an EQ pedal, the Danelectro Fish'N'Chips is a GREAT 7-band eq pedal that you can probably also find used for 30 or so.


23 Apr 2014, 21:30
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
I hear the Digitech Bad Monkey is quite good and it's around 50 bucks.... EHX also recently released the East River Drive and Glove OD pedals...Haven't used them, but from what I heard through youtube demos, I have a feeling they'll be excellent for blending with your preamp. Definitely worth trying out in the store. (a lot of OD pedals are generally modified tubescreamer circuitry)

You can also look into Chinese copies (Joyo, Biyang, Moen, and slightly more expensive, but quite good: Mooer) ... I've heard a shitload of good things about Mooer and Biyang in particular. They all have quite good copies of pedals that cost 4x as much for the real deal....

Biyang and Moen pedals average around 50 bucks, Mooer's stuff has risen to about 80-90 bucks last I checked, mainly due to their solid quality and excellent reviews. Joyo's stuff is around 30-35.

For the EQ pedal, I personally have a MXR 10 band EQ pedal, and it's quite good, but is NOT true bypass despite claiming to be. I paid around 80 for it, used. (Another tip with EQ pedals: Always cut, try not to boost any frequencies too much.)

Your NS-2 is perfect for the job. Sure, an ISP Decimator would be better, but it's also pricier, and really a shitload of pro musicians use Boss pedals without any issues. (In fact, a while back I watched a demo video of the Amptweaker TightMetal presented by the guitar player of Misery Index, and he uses a NS-2 as well)

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23 Apr 2014, 21:41
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Post Re: Here, we discuss tubes...
Beat me to it with the bad monkey :lol:

I also heard good things about the Danelectro EQ. Only thing that I dont like, is the plastic construction.

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23 Apr 2014, 21:44
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